juliejohansen

from Maximum Rock & Roll
October, 1994

AFI got interviewed in a converted mental hospital in the east Berkeley foothills by Lilly who does My Letter To the World and someone else. This is rigt before Dave was forced to shave his mohawk due to a court order.

MRR: Okay, let's start off with who's in the band and what they do.
D: I'm Davey and I sing, make faces and swing from the trees.
M: I'm Morkissey, I am the reincarnation of Jimi Hendrix. All kneel and praise me.
A: Adam. Drums.
G: I'm Geoff. I play bass and sock Adam when he makes fun of me.
MRR: What are your influences?
D: Other than skateboarding and Little Debbies [laughter], donuts, milk, Angry Samoans, The Germs, Minor Threat, Misfits...
A: Descendents.
D: 7 Seconds.
M: Punk rock
A: Cyndi Lauper
D: I like some glam
MRR: What kind of glam???
D: Poison, Motley Crue.
M: Twisted Sister.
MRR: What have you released so far?
G: Our first release was a split 7" with another band, which was a limited pressing of 210 copies. Our second release was Behind the Times 6-song 7" with a first pressing of 400 copies. That was in '93. Our new one is a limited pressing of 200 on pink vinyl and it's a live 5-song 7".
D: It wasn't supposed to be pink vinyl, it was supposed to be peppermint vinyl, so it's supposed to look like one of those peppermint cantdies witht the red and white swirlies. They fucked it up so it's pink. What's the name of that pressing plant? Well, whatever it is...don't use it!!!! You'll be on Frilly Pink and you'll be forced to buy flowers from Adama's Flower Shop. Oh, our second 7" is on clear black vinyl... did you know that? [discussion follows]
G: Someday we hope to surpass a landmark pressing of 500 copies, but that will take some extra-terrestrial assistance.
D: Yeah.
MRR: Do you have any plans to go into the studio?
G: Hopefully, by the time this comes out, we will have gone into the studio.
M: If we can find someone to pay for it for a change.
MRR: Don't you have a label, too?
G: Yeah, I run Key Lime Pie Records. So, unless people give me money, I pay for everything myself and I get nothing in return!!
D: You get a kiss every once in a while.
G: Not from you!!!
D: I try. [laughter]
MRR: Do you have any tour plans?
M: We are going to play a bunch of places other than the Bay Area all at the same time, since we're going to be in the neighborhood.
D: Ignoring Rhetoric Boy, yes we plan on touring next summer.
MRR: Where do you plan to play?
M: Dong Dahl's
D: You wouldn't think so, but we have a really big following in Dong Dahlia.
MRR: Do you care taht you don't play what everyone else is playing nowadays?...such as emo-core, pop-punk, etc?
G: No, pop-punk is neither pop nor punk. We play punk. [Adama laughs] Like '80's style punk. A lot of bands now play pop stuff and its just like new wave, but with guitars instead of syntheizers.
M: We basically play the same kind of stuff that we listen to and always have: the same stuff that's been around since the early '80's.
D: I mean, Rites of Spring were pretty good and Fugazi's cool, but all those clone bands... there are too many of them and they all sound exactly the same. At least, to me. I don't know.
MRR: Do you guys ever get concerned that a bunch of teeny boppers won't like you?
[All around 'yeeeaahhs']
D: Yeah, we're extremely worried about that
A: A lot of our newer music sounds a lot like stuff they play on Top-40 Radio. If that won't get us the girls we'll give Rap a try. If that doesn't work...
D: Basically, if we don't have forty halter tops at each show, we know we've got a problem. We do realize that in the future we'll up the minimum number and we'll have to change our style a little bit to reach that goal, but right now I think the teeny bopper situation is okay.
MRR: In your eyes (or ears), do you think punk will ever be dead?
D: No.
M: I dunno.
D: Will you ever be dead?
M: When I kill myself on my 30th birthday.
MRR: Do you think you guys'll ever go metal?
M: Geoff and I will.
A: I'm going to go reggae.
G: Yeah, we'll play Slayer covers after A.F.I. is over.
D: I hate all of you.
MRR: Do you prefer 'fuck the state', or 'smash the state'?
D: I prefer 'eat the state'.
M: I prefer 'drive the state'. I've been commuting from L.A.
G: I'd prefer 'smash the state' because you can say it on the radio
D: You like to smash things.
G: I like to smash radios
M: Vic Chalker got a butter knife...
A: I'd prefer 'fuck and smash the state', because when y ou put the two together, you get crazy violent sex.
D: Adama likes violent sex. All you bondage babes out there; the drummer with the hair likes rough sex.
MRR: It's always the soft-spoken ones, I tell you.
G: Hi Adama's parents!
MRR: You were talking about butter knives?
M: Oh yeah, speaking of Vic Chalker, the poor boy has a butter knife stuck in his stereo because of Geoff, and... uh... that's all.
G: Okay, Mark and I were in this art class in high school. We were actually mortal enemies, because we are both smart-ass shit-starters, and there was a stereo in the classroom. There was some collegate crap blaring out of the thing...The Dead Milkmen, I think. I kept threatening to bust some heads if they didn't turn it off, but do you think that did any good? Of course not, so I grabbed a butter knife off my desk, walked over to their table and stabbed the stereo until it stopped playing.
D: Yeah, and if Geoff ever breaks a string... watch out.
M: Yeah, 'cause one time when we were rehearsing in Adam's garage, Geoff broke a string and went aggro. He threw his bass on the floor, picked it up and threw it on the floor again.
D: I dove behind one of the cars in the garage, Adum crawled into his bass drum to hide, Mark heartily expressed his approval until Geoff finally stopped and surveyed the damage. [a moment of silence]
M: Davey is the most popular guy on campus.
Everyone else: But Mark is the Big Man on Campus!
M: Aw, fuck. I was asking for that.
G: Because he's so pretty.
D: If you ever see us, you'll know which one of us is Mark, wheter or not he's playing guitar or anything because he's the one that's pretty. He's the cutie. Don't be intimidated, feel free to give him a big wet kiss from me.
MRR: Do you eat donuts?
M: What? No.
MRR: What are your favorite kinds of donuts?
M: I told you I don't eat donuts. Can't you hear?
D: I like French Cruellers. There's a donut that they make in this donut shop in Ukiah, it's called the 'Chocolate Fuck You', or the 'Fuck You I'm Chocolate' or something. You know what I'm talking about Adam? It's this big chocolate bar.
A: Uh, no
D: What's wrong with you?
A:I like chocolate old-fashioned. They're all I eat.
G: Besides shit. (Laughter from the gang)
D: If you're ever in Ukiah, there's this donut shop across the street from Taco Bell on State Street. They have these donuts about nine inches long: they're chocolate in the middle, chocolate covered, chocolate chips on top, and they're fucking awesome.
G: Yeah, that donut place is in a prime location: about three blocks away from a store that sells liquor and firearms. [Laughter]
M: 'Whiskey John's Guns and Liquor'.
G: Oh yeah, ask us about Wal-Mart
D: Yeah, ask us about Wal-Mart
MRR: What about Wal-Mart?
G: Well, let me tell ya. I went there with Dave and Mark looking for material to print patches on and there was this gangster girl there and she walked by and laughted and said, "It's not Halloween, you know." While she was walking away I said, "You coulda fooled me." She came back and got in my face and said, "What did you say?" I looked her in the eye and said, "YOU COULD HAVE FOOLED ME." I basically spelled it out for her and she was tough or something and said that Ukiah was her city and Wal-Mart was her territory and to watch out for her or some crap.
A: That's basically why we left. [lotsa laughter]
G: Then her boyfriend got in my face and said, "Hey man, this is my girlfriend. Why don't you shut up?", and I said, "well then why don't you tell her to shut up?!", and he just walked away. That was about it. Oh!, and there's another story about Wal-Mart. Davey and I were buying dog chains and this redneck, typical Ukiahan guy walked by, and said, "Hey look, they're buying their jewelry." And then Davey sez,....
D: "That's right, MOTHERFUCKER!!" [laughter]
G: I didn't see who it was. I looked for him and was gonna go up and say, "Yeah, they're for your wife", but I couldn't find who he was.
MRR: Davey, tell the story about the time you gusy played with SNFLL.
D: Well, we have a couple of stories about that... When we playe dwiht SNFU, Geoff and I and our friend Smiff... Mark was there too, Adumb had already left, for reasons unmentioinable. We were standing at the table selling stuff, and there was this big girl... She was really tall, about 100 feet tall and...She wasn't fat or anyting- she was just BIG. She had this big smile and bright red lipstick and a short blond flat-top - a bleach-ed blond haircut like the girl in Rocky IV, or whatever.
M: Like Susan Powter.
D Yeah, like her! 'Stop the Insanity!' So, she kept coming up to the SNFU table and out stuff and saying, "Anything free?" and she'd smile. We'd say, "No" and she'd make this grimace, pout, roll her eyes and walk away. She kept coming up and doing that and at one point, I was drinking Jolt and I had let somebody else drink out of it. There was lipstick on it when she gave it back to me. I said to Dave (SNFU's manager) after I drank from it, "That's the closest thing I've come to a kiss in a long time." And, so, he says, "Aw, Davey, you just got to exert yourself." So the big girl comes back and takes these two SNFU stickers off the table and tapes them to her breasts, which were kind of large. Dave says, "Don't make me go there, 'cause I will." She says, "Well what if i run?" and Dave says, "Well, me and Davey will have to catch you and tear them off. Won't that be fun?" I was just sitting there, so Dave says, "I'll tell you what. If you give my friend Davey here a little kiss I'll let you have those two stickers for free." She says, "Okay," and then he asked, "How about you, Dave?", "Uh, okay." - I thought I was just gonna get a little smooch...
G: So Davey puckers up and the girl takes her hand, puts it behind Davey's head, and this 80 foot tongue shoots out of her mouth and goes down Davey's throat!
D: I was shocked, I was crying, I couldn't breathe. Ohhh- it was horrible.
G: My eyes popped out of my head about three feet.
D: It was traumatizing.
M: And later on when she saw you what did she say? Oh, "I'll see YOU later."
D: I'm a fucking idiot.
MRR: Closing comments?
M: Macaroni and Cheese.
D: Oh! Monster Cereal.
A: Oh, I must kill myself.
D: Jello B. Mothra.
G: Buy our records, buy our shirts, and write to us. If you send us a SASE, we'll send you a patch.
D: We'll have buttons and stickers soon...I've gotta pee.

The AFI singer chats about his crush on Beyonce and his high school role in "Oliver Twist"

AUSTIN SCAGGS

In person, AFI's Davey Havok is so charming, upbeat and funny that it surprises you that this is the guy who writes tortured lyrics like ''My whole life is a dark room.'' From his home in Oakland, California, Havok, 30, says AFI's seventh album, Decemberunderground, is about finding love -- and is aimed at ''those detached few who, in their relative abnormality, find solace in each other.'' It's the group's most eclectic disc yet, a far cry from AFI's doom-and-gloom punk-rock roots, and it mixes disparate influences, from Television to the Cure. The hot single ''Miss Murder'' even has a whiff of glam. ''I'm really happy with the whole record,'' says frontman Havok. But is he superstoked that December will be released on June 6th (6/6/06). ''I don't put too much weight in those Christian concepts,'' he says. ''Does Slayer have an album out on that day? I hope so -- it would be so right.''

 

You're vegan. What cities do you like to hit on tour, based on the vegan dining options?
Good question. I've got it covered. New York, absolutely. You've got Zen Palate, you've got Red Bamboo. There's a lot of vegan treats. There's a woman who makes vegan desserts in -- I want to say Pennsylvania or New Jersey, and she ships them into New York. But then, I believe she also sells them in Philly, which is great because in Philly you've got a place that sells vegan cheesecakes, all these vegan desserts. Like one year I happened to be in Philly on my birthday and everyone on tour with us surprised me with a -- check this out -- a vegan cookies-and-cream birthday cake. It was out of control. L.A. -- it's fantastic. San Francisco has my favorite vegetarian/vegan restaurant anywhere, which is Millennium. Chicago has vegan French toast, as does Portland. Seattle has vegan cinnamon buns. Salt Lake City used to have vegan soft-serve. And Vegas now has vegan donuts, which is yet another reason to go to Vegas. Then you've got Toronto and Montreal, which has Le Commensal, a vegetarian/vegan restaurant where you pay for your food by the weight. Like, you go through and they weigh your plate and charge you accordingly, which is very interesting.

Why don't you live in San Francisco?
I like San Francisco, as far as that restaurant place. But I really don't have any desire to live there at all. There's really not much going on there except inability to park. Like, if anything's going on I can just go across the Bay and enjoy it and then come back to where I live [in Berkeley]. It's funny, we grew up here in the East Bay, and we always said that San Francisco was a place where people went when they retired and got old -- retired from the scene basically. And, really, I've never gotten over that concept. Starting with that, I've never really wanted to live there. It seems like the social scene over there, is mostly going out to bars, which I don't think is much different than anywhere else in the world, but there's not really much going on other than that. And I have absolutely no interest in going out at night and sitting at a bar, especially since I have nothing to do, other than asphyxiate on smoke and watch people get wasted.

Did you get drunk once and then realize it wasn't for you?
Actually, no I've never been drunk in my life. I've never even had like a beer. It never really appealed to me. That culture was just very unappealing and I never wanted to be part of it. I just saw how people acted and treated each other. And I was just like ''that is not for me.'' And I also thought of it as something very civilian. It seemed like the mandatory recreation for civilians. I thought, ''If alcohol makes you do this, I want no part. I want nothing in common with these people.'' That's when I was fifteen.

Let's go back to being a kid. When did you start singing?
Technically, I started singing when I was maybe like five years old. My grandfather used to sing to me. And my mom was very musical. I remember going to see my mom in a local musical in New York where we lived, and I was probably like four or five years old.

What musical was it?
Oh man, I think it was a local children's production. All I remember is a song that she sang with a group that was called ''It's All Okay.'' That might have been the name of the play to tell you the truth. But I was surrounded musically. And I just used to sing songs that my grandfather had taught me. And then, at a young age, I was probably doing local musical theatre. I think I did Oliver Twist in fourth grade -- in fact, I don't think, I know I did Oliver Twist in fourth grade. I did theater throughout my childhood and throughout high school. And there was a pretty good time where I was doing AFI and musical theatre in high school.

What was your grandfather singing to you?
''Darktown Strutters' Ball,'' ''Mr. Moon,'' ''Ballin' Jack.'' We're talking very old songs. So I learned those and I would just sing those along with him. Then I would listen to my mom's 12-inch records. I'd jump up and down on the bed and listen to Diana Ross and Michael Jackson's Off the Wall. And then she had The Rocky Horror Picture Show on vinyl, which I was fascinated with at a very young age. Somewhere around there I got my first tape player, and then I went out and bought my first tapes, which were Duran Duran, Devo, Men at Work and Journey.

Why'd you get those?
We didn't even have MTV where we lived, but I knew Duran Duran and Culture Club and, I think, Devo came from seeing the videos somehow. Or I knew the songs from the radio. I don't know why I bought Journey, to tell you the truth. It was 1980-whatever and Journey was everywhere. So I was like, ''Well, I need a Journey record.'' I didn't even know what I was buying, but I got it.

You were talking about doing musical theatre. Were you like the star of the show at that point?
Not when I started. When I first auditioned for Oliver I was just one of Fagan's boys, but I think the director didn't know what was going on. [Laughs] Later, yeah. I mean, we're talking local theatre, so I don't think ''star'' is the appropriate word. Lead role possibly, but definitely not star. I was the lead role in my last musical that I did in high school, which is Pippin. I was Pippin.

Nice. Do you think your interest in musical theatre has to do with the make-up that you wear now?
I would imagine that it has something to do with it. I definitely had a propensity for that for years, since a young age. And I think musical theatre helped with that. I remember being in high school, and it helping as an excuse with the more threatening students when they'd say: ''Dude, are you wearing make-up? Oh, you're in a play, right?'' ''Yeah, it's just from the play, I'm not gay.'' [They laugh] ''Yeah, I'm in a play.'' ''Oh, okay.'' And it's funny, because the same girls who thought it was totally freakish that there were guys wearing make-up, when you're wearing it because it's left over from the play the night before, it turned into, ''Oh wow, you look really pretty!''

Do you remember the first time when you heard yourself on the radio?
I do. I absolutely remember it. Well, I remember it the first time I heard it on mainstream radio. I was in my car with my friend Tigerlily, who used to help me hang flyers for our shows, and she used to do a fan 'zine. My car had one speaker that worked, which was on the passenger side. The driver side speaker was broken. The tape player was broken; there certainly weren't any CDs in it.

What kind of car was it?
It was a 1982 Honda Accord. And this was 1995. And the little button that you press for FM and AM was broken. So, you had to shove a toothpick in it to make it go to FM. All I could listen to was the radio. And so we were listening to Live 105 and the song came on. It just fuzzed out of the blown-out speakers. Before I could make out what was going on, I turned to Lily and I said, ''This doesn't sound like it sucks?'' And she's like, ''Yeah.'' And then I'm like, ''What is this?'' And I turn it up, and I'm like, ''Oh my God.'' So, I was really excited and I also really embarrassed that I was saying that we didn't suck. It was really like, ''Oh my God, I can't believe this is our band!'' And she couldn't believe it either because radio stations definitely didn't play anything like that at the time. Ever since then they've been -- that radio station, Live 105 -- has actually supported us, which is really exciting for us.

Cool, what song was it?
It was ''Don't Make Me Ill'' off of Answer That and Stay Fashionable.

Wow.
That's only the most really accessible song on that record, if you can say there was one at all.

What are your favorite, or the funniest uses of the AFI acronym?
Oh, I really like, Aw, Fuck It. On a couple occasions people will maintain that it stands for something like, A Fire Within, or A Forgotten Song, something like that where they totally ignore the letter of the acronym. Those are always really good. It's always good to hear the really sort of uninformed, base, derogatory definitions aimed at the band. It's always good to hear the new improved versions, like A Fag Inside. It's always good to see what they come up with. I kind of enjoy those just to see how those people's minds work; it's kind of interesting.

Is there a kind of music that annoys the shit out of you?

As far as genre?

Yeah.
I remember what was called ska-punk -- excluding bands like Stiff Little Fingers and Operation Ivy. You know what we're talking about. That drove me crazy.

That was a huge East Bay thing, too.
Yeah, there was a lot of it here. There was a lot of it everywhere. It drove all of us crazy at the time. It was very prevalent in like '95-'96, so much that it was appropriate to say to our booking agent when we went on tour, ''Look, just make sure that the local bands aren't ska-punk bands.'' It would be fine if they're ska, or if they're punk. But when you put those two together it drove us crazy. Luckily, that's over, which is nice. As far as broad hatred of the genres, I don't really hate entire genres. I mean, usually there's something good within a greater genre, even if the whole thing is mostly bereft of any sort of quality.

What are your guilty pleasures, in that regard?
I don't really see any of my pleasures as guilty pleasures, because anything I like, I feel like, ''Well, I like it. It's good. If you don't like it I don't care''.

So you'd still throw on Off the Wall?
Yeah. Well, I never owned the Michael Jackson record -- it was my Mom's -- but yeah, a song came on when I was getting my eyebrows done from Off the Wall yesterday, and I was like, ''Oh yeah, this is good.'' It was interesting because it was kind of a good example of what you're talking about. Three songs came on in a row and they were completely different, but I thought to myself, ''Wow, these are really great. This is like three songs in a row that I like'' -- completely different genres of music. There was a song off of Off the Wall, DJ Sammy's remix of Brian Adams [''Heaven''], which is great, I love that, and then they played a Smashing Pumpkins song off of Siamese Dream. So, that was really cool.

You know, people ask me, ''Is there anything you would listen to that would shock people?'' and for me it's hard to answer because so many people have so many different perceptions of who I am. Wherever I go, whatever show I go to or whatever event I go to -- and I go to a lot of shows -- people always say ''Wow, I'd never expect to see you here.'' I don't know where people expect to see me. I mean, when I'm at an industrial show, or a Morrissey show, or a hardcore show, or some sort of fashion event or whatever, they don't expect to see me there.

That's funny.
Yeah, and I always say like, ''Why? Where did you expect to see me?''

In a park, under a tree, in the rain, writing gloomy lyrics?
They never have an answer! [Laughs] Yeah, I guess it's just that they don't expect to see me at all, anywhere.

Are you super-excited that your record's coming out on 6/6/06?
No. I mean, I'm not disappointed. It's not really a big deal. I don't put too much weight in those Christian concepts. It's kind of fun in that it's memorable, and maybe it's going to bum some people out. But let me tell you: To answer your question, I would have been super-stoked in junior high or high school if you would have told me that I was going to have a record that came out on 6/6/06. It would have been amazing. But now it's like, you know, whatever. It was coincidence; it wasn't on purpose. It just landed on a Tuesday. So, there it is. Like, I would be super-stoked if Slayer was coming out on that day, because it should be. I hope so. I hope so. I hope Slayer planned that out in advance. You know, it's just so right.

Do you decorate your vocal booth in the studio?
I do. I do, yeah, for inspiration. I like to put posters of my favorite singers up around the vocal booth, so there's always Moz and Bowie and Freddy. Unfortunately, the last recording session was greatly lacking in all my Ians: Ian Curtis, Ian Astbury, Ian MacKaye. We couldn't find any of the Ian posters. So, you know, you might be able to see they aren't represented in the vocal quality. Umm, Peter Murphy, Robert Smith. And lots of candles. Most studios actually provide the candles.

Cool. What's your bunk like, on the bus?
Passenger side, closest to the front of the bus, lower bunk. Adam's always above me.

What happens after the show when you guys all get back on the bus? What do you guys do?
It's pretty uneventful. I mean, we get back on the bus, we all sit around a little bit, kind of hang out with all our crew. And, most recently, I think the South Park movie happened to be on. We discuss anecdotes of the day and then just go to bed. But, pretty rock and roll, huh?

That's outta control.
Completely out of hand.

How do you remember anything?
I know. It's nuts that I'm even still here.

Is there one record store that you've spent the most money at? Maybe at Amoeba?
You know, it's probably Rasputin's, because Rasputin's actually had a greater industrial, dark section than Amoeba did for years and years. Now that's not the case. Now, Amoeba's better.

I read somewhere that you got letters written in blood.
Yeah, I've gotten a few.

What do those say?
They say really nice things. They're usually professions of adoration and commitment and appreciation. They just happen to be written in blood.

What other kind of bizarre stuff do you get in the mail?
Most of the stuff, luckily, is not as frightening as that, or as unsanitary. I get socks, kind of cute socks sometimes. I get make-up. I get nail-polish. I get little Japanese plastic toys or plush toys. I'll get things like that, which is far preferable to any sort of bodily fluids.

Do you have an iPod?
I do.

Is there a ton of shit on there?
There is so much on my iPod. In fact, I actually need a new iPod.

You need a separate one.
I hear rumors that they're going to come out with the 100-gig. And I'm kind of holding out for that. I think it's going to come out really soon, so I'm holding out.

So you have a 60-gig now?

No, I don't even have the 60, that's the thing. I need the 60. I really do. In fact, I should be going to get it today so I could connect it and have it on tour tomorrow. So, who knows, maybe by the end of the day I will have a 60. But I just have a 40.

Do you have it in nearby?
Yeah, let me grab it. Or do you want it off my Nano, which'd be the gym iPod?

Definitely the gym one. Isn't it amazing that with the Nano, we can finally shove 100 songs up our ass?
[Laughs] I've wanted to do that for years. And CDs are just so bulky and sharp. Okay, I could tell you every artist that's on here; there's not that many. Ready?

Go ahead.
Okay. Error, 108, A Perfect Circle, Atari Teenage Riot, Black Audio, Catherine Wheel, Circa Survive, Covenant, Day of Contempt, Dead Guy, Depeche Mode, Dillinger Escape Plan, Duran Duran, Echo Image, Erasure, INXS, Iris, Jawbreaker, Modern Life is War, Morrissey, Quicksand, Sisters of Mercy, Tool, and my vocal warm-ups, which are scale exercises I do before the soundcheck and before the show. It's about a 45-minute vocal warm-up. So, I have to do it like...I usually do it two hours before we play so I have an hour to get physically prepared, like visually speaking. And stretching, as well.

What are your favorite lyrics on Decemberunderground.
I love ''Love Like Winter,'' ''Endlessly, She Said,'' ''Kiss and Control,'' I really like the mood of that song. I'm really happy with the lyrics. I'm actually really happy with the whole record, in every aspect. It's really exciting. But those are the three songs that spring to mind.

What about a specific lyric?
I was thinking about this the other night. Just a really quick lyric off of ''The Killing Lights'' came to mind, where it just says -- it's very simple -- it just says, ''Am I beautiful; am I usable.'' I really like that line.

You said in a press release, ''Decemberunderground is a community of those detached and disillusioned who flee to love like winter in the recesses below the rest of the world.'' Can you expand on that?
It's basically describing a sort of exclusive, unique type of feeling that certain people have, and those people gravitate toward each other, and find solace in each other in different venues. I mean, whether they find that within music, within our music, within different forms of art, within different cultures, it's those detached few who go to each other in their relative abnormalities to find that winter love, in that respect. And, more specifically, to quote Gahan, or art specifically I suppose, it's that strange love, it's that dark love, it's that cold love, it's the outlook that it's completely different than what most people perceive as something maybe even positive. That's kind of involved in the whole mood of Decemberunderground.

But, it reflects a lot on the band as well, I think. As opposed to just this album.
Yeah, most definitely. To speak of it in those terms directly kind of puts an air of importance on the band that may or may not be there, depending on the listener. But, it definitely speaks that way to us, internally.

Is there a moment, a place, a time that you realized that this is the album that you want to write, that this was the overriding concept of the album, the theme of the album?
It was really more natural than that. It wasn't a moment in time. It was just a flow and a growth in the album. And, as it became realized and created, it just all came together in that way, and the title just fit perfectly with the whole mood and sentiment. So, it just naturally came together and it worked.

I love ''The Missing Frame''.
Ahh, the ''The Missing Frame,'' yes. Sorry, what was the question again?

I was just telling you that I dug it.
Oh, you like it. Oh, thank you very much. I love playing that song. It's been one of Adam's favorites for a long time, too. It's really, the mood that it creates, I think, has a sort of...now, let me say a few things, because I've always felt this when we were working on it -- it seems to have kind of like a protopunk vibe to it, kind of a mid-period Joy Division or a...not vocally, obviously. But maybe like a Television kind of feel. Kind of Magazine, maybe.

Wow, that was great. Do you remember a show with the least amount of people in it?
Yes, I do. We played a show in Olympia, Washington on tour to three people. There were two people who came to see us; this couple, this guy and this girl, who used to come see us every time we would play in the northwest to very few people who typically come see us. And, this time there were [three].

Do you remember the names of those two people? We should give them a shout out.
I wish I remember the names. I don't, I don't. I really wish I'd remember the names. If they read this, they'll definitely know who they are; they'll definitely know because they were the only ones there.

The last record you bought?
I haven't listened to it yet, but just last night I bought Gnarls Barkley. Is it good?

Yeah, it's fucking great.
Awesome. It sounds like it's...I mean, I've only heard the one song. It's amazing. It reminds me of something Moby would sample.

Writers who influence you?
I love Wilde -- I know Morrissey's been citing him for years. Fante, John Fante. Chuck Palahniuk. [Bret Easton] Ellis. Poe. Baudelaire.

Most attractive band?
That's a good looking band. They're all tall, skinny and good looking! And very nice. It was cool to meet them recently.

Girl musician you're attracted to?
I was getting my nails done and I looked to the left and this girl had these gorgeous, red glitter heels. I look up to see one of the most beautiful people I've ever seen. The type of beauty that just closes up in your chest, like I was looking at something surreal. So I said, ''Your shoes are amazing!'' I had a brief conversation about glittery shoes -- she was really nice. This is how lost I am: When she walked out, Paul, the guy doing my nails says, Oh my God, I can't believe that was Beyonce -- I have to call my boyfriend!

Fifteenth anniversary of AFI -- when's the date on that?
It's June of 2006. Yeah, fifteen years. That's amazing!

What was that first day like? What happened fifteen years ago?
Okay, here's what the first day was -- lunch time, Ukiah High School. Mark, Vic and myself are sitting in our little area. You know, it was, of course, like any high school lunch -- separated by little cliques. And we were in our very small group. It was just the three of us, that's how small our group was. And, we were just sitting around talking about music, like we always did every lunch. We used to talk about music or skateboards or some such thing. And, we said, ''Hey, let's start a band!'' And, Mark immediately gets dibs on guitar. And Vic said, ''I'll play bass.''

I said, ''I've gotta sing.'' I believe someone said, ''No shit, choir boy?'' And, then I'm like well what are we going to do? We need a drummer. And Mark's like, ''Do you know Adam Carson?'' I'm like, ''I think so.'' And he said, ''He has a drum set. He's a friend. Let's go by him and ask him.'' So we went over to where Adam was hanging out and we're like, ''Hey.'' He's like, ''Hey.''

''We just started a band. Do you want to be in our band?'' He said, ''yeah.'' And that was it. And we didn't have instruments. We didn't know how to play. Adam had a drum set and that was it.

THEIR DARK MATERIALS

"Davey...I have fallen completely in love with you." he whispered. I gasped softly a feeling of pure elation rising inside of me.
"I know I have...I love you Jade." I said, kissing him gently.
"I love you, too...so much." he whispered, kissing me back. How could I not love him? He was the one who opened my eyes, who gave me the will to be who I was. He was protective of me, beautiful, and everything I could have ever asked for. My life had been filled with so much pain, so much anger. I loved him so much. Although I was still afraid of everything, everything seemed perfect there in his arms.

Um. How aware of the whole "Javey thing...are you?"

"Javey? Oh the FAN FICTION!" Davey Havok, who for much of the past 40 minuts has been sitting quietly suddenly leaps into life. "Yeah! I haven't seen the Javey ones have you?"

"I've actually seen a couple of pictures," Jade Puget, Davey's songwriting partner mumbles shyly. "People...send me them..."

Here's one of you being penetrated lovingly by your bass player, Hunter, look.

"WOAOOOOOAHHHHH!!!! Davey's eyes widen and his mouth drops open.

"Hunters so big," mumbles Jade.

"Hunter's pretty much bigger than me. He looks like a giant."

"That’s great! Can I have this?" Davey holds the print out up and grins broadly.

Actually, you might not like this one so much...

"Let me see! WOOOW!!! Wait-am I getting fucked? Oh, that's me. Who's fucking me?"

It's your lifeless body being tied up with fishing wire, being anally raped. It's not actually your best angle.

"AH! I'm dismembered!"

"You kinda look like a mummy." mumbles Jade.

"Yeah, I do." says davey. He then adds a quiet but emphatic, "wow."


We're sitting in the foyer of a london hotel to discuss AFI's seventh album, the reent "Decemberunderground". Davey and Jade sit side by side, sipping Starbucks coffee, smartly dressed in black shirts and ties and bearing only minimal applications of eyeliner and mascara. At 11:30 in the morning, they don't seem massively phased by the sight of gruesomely explicit fan art- what AFI's itnernet fans have codenamed "Javey"--depicting the two of them engaged in a myriad of sexual activities. Although the sketch of a dead Davey Havok, jeans yanked down, his comically huge flaccid cock knocking against his knees as e's taken from behind raises a few concerned eyebrows.

It took AFI three yeas to concot the follow up to their 2003 gold selling album "Sing the Sorrow". A lot has happened in that time. In AFI-time, a year was spent touring, a year was spent with just Davey and Jade locked away, writing what beame over 100 new AFI songs, and a year was spent in the studio refining the final 12 songs to perfection. In the outside world, bands came and went, scenes fluttered up and then, just as quickly evaporated.

The people that remembered AFI wondered what they were doing, and frustrated by the lack of information on the Californian band, made up their own stories. Obsessive internet communities sprang up, devoted to keeping the "fire inside" burning. Instrumental in this, was the establishment of the AFI fan club, the Despair faction, who appear on "Decemberunderground--stomping, clapping and shouting like (let's face it) jackbooted Nazis.

Davey Havok talked of making a "cold" album, revealing in a press release how "december...is a time and a place. it is where the cold can huddle together in darkness and isolation."

It's a slightly excruciating turn of phrase, and a bit of nebulous mission statement for a band returning to the fray after three years.

"There was no plan for this record," admits Jade. "We've always been an unfocused band in a good way. In that we play a lot of styles." He pauses, "You know since we're not a punk band, or a hardcore band."

So for the record...you're not a punk band?

"I don't think so," states Davey.

"It probably wouldn't be very accurate to say that we were," considers Jade "But there are a couple of new songs on our record that are fast and aggressive."

It's true, for better or worse, there isn't a shred of the 15-year old AFI of 1991-the cult brat-punk band who squealed "I Wanna Get A Mohawk. (But Mom won't let me)"--anywhere on the major label act who crafted "Decemberunderground"

Jaunty comeback single "Miss Murder" may dwell on suicide, but it's wrapped up in a catchy made for-FM stomp that resembles the Killers at their most anthemic. The rest of the album is elegant despairloded pop-cum-metal-cum-popular-punk.

Do you think much as changed in the three years that you've been away?

"The market forces of rock music have driven it to be more commodified." Jade states, "Punk and hardcore is turning into that emo pop-punk sound. Everythings becoming more homogenised."

Are you aware that in the three years you've been away, a number of bands have emerged who have done quite well out of AFI not being around?

Davey Havok grins, "All the people I looked like never yelled at me," he offers a little mystically. "Some of them became friends and were really nice to me. Still, a 15 year old rock fan who has gotten into musci in the past year will know more about Aiden or MCR than AFI. Doesn't that bother you?

Jade shrugs, "We certainly don't want some kid to be like, "WHY ARE YOU GUYS TRYING TO LOOK LIKE MY CHEMCICAL ROMANCE?" That would be Ridiculous! But we did go away for three years. What you gonna do?"

Was changing your sound an attempt to disassociate yourselves from those bands? This is definitely the poppiest album AFI have ever made.

"We've done fast and aggressive for years," his guitarist explains, "We could write another fast song with screaming, but how many of those can we write?"

"You're the most beautiful person I have ever seen. I love you Davey." he told me I smiled wickedly at him feeling my heart rise with elation.
"Thank you so much...Jade...for everything. I love you with everything in me." I whispered, feeling my throat tighten.

In terms of online presence, AFI fans must be the most dedicated in the world. Although battle lines are drawn between the "official" DF and the fringe elements such as those who post fanfiction stories to afislash.com, there does appear to be a genunine sense of community around the band.

"For people who can relate to the themes and sentiment that are running through the record," Havok explains, "I would hope that it does provide some feeling of comfort and some sense that there are other people out there. They can find some kind of community in their detachmetn from the majority of people and the majority of perspectives."

As a member of AFI, do yout hink of yourself as being different?

"Yes." the frontman states emphatically. He laughs as if the notion that he isn't is absurd. "Yes. Yes I do."

Is this a straight-edge thing?

"Simply being straight-edge alone separates you hugely from a culture whose recreation is focused on drug use. And beause I don't find that appealing, that alone separates me from a lot of what's going on."

"Davey gets a lot of letters saying 'Your music saved me.'" Jade says, "Even though these songs are sad, you identify with that and it's a catharsis. It helps you deal wit things in your own life."

"God...you're so beautiful." I whispered. Davey looked up at me and opened his mouth to speak.
"Jade...is this the last..."
"No. Don't talk of that. Just...let me hold ou." I whispered, burying my face in his neck.

How do you feel reading the Javey stuff, given that you two have been best friends for 15 years.

"It made me feel kinda dirty!" Davey grins squirming slightly. "It was VERY explicit. It was kind of eerie and unsettling because they base these stories on real events and they name friends of ours who are not in the public eye and take things that actually happened in my private life and expand on them."

The majority of the (literally) hundreds of AFI fanfiction stories on the net are set during the band's adolescence. Typically, they feature variations on the 15 year old Davey and Jade's school life, exorcising self-hate and repressed homosexuality through self-harm and or eating disorders. The two of them finding each other and ultimately bonding over that sel-abuse in a homo-erotic manner.

Some of the more deviant stories include rape, murder, necrophilia and even one where Davey incites Jade to sexually abuse Smith--his younger brother and AFI's tour manager.

"Why is it all gay?" Jade laughs. "Maybe it's some creepy old paedophile who's doing this."

What do you think it is that people are getting from your music- and as you as people- to be coming up with this stuff? No other band's fans are doing this.

"I don't know. For years there's always been rumours about us. Maybe people just heard too many rumours and took to writing disturbing fanfiction."

Rumours regarding Davey and Jade's sexuality have raged, uncomfirmed and undenied, for years. Davey does it bother you that when you're playing live, people will be watching you and expecting that after your gig your guitar player will be giving you a stress relieving blowjob backstage?

"No!" He exclaims, seeming to splutter. As if he has something in his mouth. "I mean, who cares?!"

Jade, when was the last time you saw Davey naked?

"What direction is this interview taking?!"

Davey himself seems, unperturbed though.

"We change together!" he says. "We're in a band, it's like being a sports team! We're constantly naked."

What is interesting though, is that none of these internet posts are in anyway homophobic. Actualy it seems that this is the place where AFI fans explore issues of sexual health and mental-well being.

"That's a good point." Agrees davey. "it's that kind of community. That's very positive because a lot of people struggle with those kind of things. I don't like the killing...and dismemberment but they could have us doing something truly horrible..."

"They could have us eating meat!" pipes up Jade.

"YeaH! Eating meat and drinking beer!" laughs the charismatic frontman. "Then I'd be pissed off!"

Interview w/ Hunter Burgan

Words By Sheila Flaherty

I had the opportunity of sitting down with a member of my favorite band of all time; AFI. A piss rain afternoon walk lead us to the 'New York' room of some swanky hotel in downtown Toronto. I got to hear a pseudo epic tale, something a bit different from the Despair Factions regular updates. Read on.

Hunter: I’ll tell you an epic tale about licorice. Well...it’s not really an epic tale. It will really just answer the question as to why I hate licorice.

TE: Well then I shall ask…why do you hate licorice?

Hunter: Do you really wanna know or are you just saying that? Because there are probably ten other epic tales I have beside me.

TE: Licorice seems like a good start.

Hunter: (Clears throat.) The epic tale of licorice. When I was a small child my mother somehow had access to licorice flavored toothpaste. Her sister or one of her friends worked at a place where they had an ample supply of this stuff.

TE: That’s just disgusting.

Hunter: That alone is just disgusting; I don’t know if that was just a 70's thing.

TE: Easily could have been.

Hunter: This is me age zero through three...or somewhere around there. I would steal these tubes and go hide behind a tree and eat them.

TE: You would actually just eat the toothpaste?

Hunter: Well this is where I developed my hatred for licorice because I made myself sick.

TE: Well do you have a hatred for toothpaste?

Hunter: No. But I always hated licorice. So growing up as a kid...“You want some licorice”...“No thanks...I hate licorice”. You’re a kid. You’re allowed to hate things. That’s what being a kid is...oh I hate this vegetable. Then in 1995 I was twenty-five no wait...nineteen...

TE: Don’t get ahead of yourself.

Hunter: My friends and I were hanging out at this gas station and I noticed this candy bar that I had never seen before. It was this magical candy bar. I go “look at this magical candy bar!”. But I didn’t have any money and my friend said he’d buy me that magical candy bar if I ate a brick of licorice.

TE: A brick?

Hunter: A full on brick. I pictured it as one...two...three...four... five...six bites, tops! I could just eat it and then have this magical candy bar, so I thought “I’m going to do this”.

TE: Ok...who makes bricks of licorice?

Hunter: I don’t know, but they should be in prison.

TE: Hahaha

Hunter: So I launch into this brick of licorice and I find out that it’s so thick and dense that you can not just eat this in six bites. You would have to peel off a piece and then eat it. My mouths watering and it’s just making me sick. Its been built into my DNA that I hate licorice. I’m struggling and dying. I snuck my friend a piece...when no one was looking I’d throw a piece over my shoulder as far as I could. We got into a car and I snuck a piece into my sock.

TE: This must have been one hell of a brick of licorice.

Hunter: It was huge. I seriously felt like I’m gonna throw up. So I got about 80% done with this brick of licorice and I was sick to my stomach and my friends like, “It’s cool. You can have this magical bar.” And I’m like “it’s cool...I don’t feel good”. So from that day forward, which was about eleven years ago I’m not even tempted to eat licorice even on a dare.

TE: Was the magical bar worth it?

Hunter: I may have had it later...so...no. That’s the real lesson. No magical candy bar is worth eating something that you’ve hated since you were a baby.

TE: Well, ya. That’s an important lesson. Thanks, I appreciate that.

Hunter: I’m not sure if that qualifies as an epic tale...

TE: It could be. What is the “truth” about AFI?

Hunter: The truth is that we’re not such a terribly serious band. We’re actually all really funny guys and fun loving, and that’s the truth that comes to mind

1. How long have you been straightedge?
I have claimed the “x” for just under thirteen years.

2. How did you get into it?
I was heavily into the punk rock scene but felt quite out of place. The self-destructive aspects of the movement did not appeal to me, but I was very attracted to the aggression and honesty of the music. I found the drug culture not only unappealing, but absolutely appalling. This made me feel alienated within the scene of outcasts. Then I discovered Minor Threat and realized that there were people out there with the same interests and beliefs as my own. They called themselves straightedge, as I did from that point on.

3. What keeps you on the path?
My absolute disgust of drug use.

4. Cool tour story involving the edge.
About three or four years ago we were on tour in the deep south and had stopped at a gas station. We rolled out of the van into the convenience store that was run and overrun by some backwoods good old boys. None of us had any straightedge gear on, none of us had any visible tattoos showing, none were x’ed up. Some of us were wearing hoodies but none of them had anything to do with hardcore. When we were buying our juice and granola bars, we heard this conversation between two locals…
“What the hell they supposed to be?”
“They call themselves “X’ers.”
“What’s that mean?”
“Well, they don’t drink, smoke or do any drugs.”
“Yew serious?”
“That’s what I hear.”
“That’s stupid, why the hell would yew do that?”
“Ya got me.”

5. Worst heckling/peer pressure you ever took for being drug free.
All of my experiences are fairly typical. Heavy mockery, people literally trying to force alcohol on me – the classics.

6. Edgebreakers…thoughts?
With every edge that is broken it cheapens the movement. It sounds dramatic, but it truly pains me when I find someone I know has fallen. It makes me feel more alone. But as they say…”if you’re not you never were.”

7. Is vegetarianism/veganism part of straightedge for you?
I do not consume any animal products but I do not connect that to my edge. It is a natural correlation, however. I certainly would encourage anyone to explore a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle but think to demand that of every sXe kid makes the movement far too exclusive. I think we must begin with the betterment of humanity which would then naturally result in compassion for animals.

8. First hardcore record you ever bought.
Minor Threat singles compilation.

9. First hardcore show.
Seven Seconds.

10. Worst mosh or stagedive injury/pit experience?
Broken nose.

11. Best show you ever played?
It may very well have been last week at the LA Palladium.

12. Best show you ever saw?
Lollapalloza 1: Jane’s Addiction, Siouxie and the Banshees, NIN…man.

13. Top 5 favorite records of all time.
Bauhaus “Press Eject and Give Me the Tape”
The Cure “Pornography”
David Bowie “The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust”
Echo and the Bunnymen “Heaven Up Here”
The Smiths “Strangeways, Here We Come”

14. Minor Threat or Seven Seconds?
Minor Threat.

15. Lyrics that say it all for you.
“I want to see you, hear your voice, regret the choice. Rejoice in watching you collapse.”
“Fear of failure, fear of reprimand, two big problems I’ve never had. I’ve never doubted what I had inside.”
and finally…
“A Fire Storm to Purify!”

16. Message to the youth?
Respect yourself, respect each other.